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Talk:Dust of Dreams/Dramatis Personae
I am moving the discussion about the EDP to this page so the info is all in one place. Well, the plot thickens with regards to who is in the original DP and who is not. My own UK hardback edition does not have all of them either. When I created the EDP I simply copied the DP from the main book page and sorted it alphabetically. I used the same process for other books where the main page had a DP. I just assumed that it had been copied from the books. Looking through the history of that page, the original DP was added by Game Widow a long time ago. I am unable to say what the source was. Given that the only longer list seems to be the one in the amazon preview panel and those current editions we have looked at i.e. UK, US and e-reader, all have the shorter DP, maybe we should change the original DP to that and keep those Bolkandos in italics. What's your vote, AV, Pcwrcw? Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 16:03, October 15, 2016 (UTC) :If the more current UK version has the shorter list as well, then I don't have a problem modifying the DP's to match. The new version is more likely the one to be seen by new readers. What a shame they went that route with the books though.--ArchieVist (talk) 16:14, October 15, 2016 (UTC) That would be my vote as well. We probably should add a note to all of the DPs and EDPs as a precaution to say that the names included in the original book DPs may vary depending on edition. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 16:54, October 15, 2016 (UTC) DD Ext DP and the 'original' DP Fine with me to use the 'shorter' beginning DP to work off of for the DD Ext DP. It's difficult to see what else we can do. Okay, to make sure everyone knows what I'll be doing going forward, note the following: :With regard to the DD Ext DP, Pcwrcw will work from a 'shorter' form of the book DP (i.e., as it appears in one of the US print versions of DoD). Essentially, that means the 'Bolkando', 'Akrynnai', 'Forkkrul Assail', etc. entry names will be italicized and NOT bolded. Hope that's clear, Pcwrcw (talk) 17:36, October 16, 2016 (UTC) :I have added DP sources to the DP and EDP page, Pcwrcw. Can you specify which edition you are using i.e. mass market paperback (MMPB) or hardback (HB)? Could you also double check the original DP on the main book page with your copy to make sure all the info is exactly as in your copy? Thanks :) :Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:17, October 17, 2016 (UTC) From Pcwrcw (talk) :Sorry, I should have said. The DD edition I'm using as the basis for the DD Ext DP is the US TOR Hardcover, 1st Edition, 1st Printing. Pcwrcw (talk) 23:25, October 17, 2016 (UTC) From Pcwrcw (talk) again: :Well, I looked at what I think is supposed to be the DD '...original DP on the main book page...', and I am sorry to say that it looks to be a mixture of one of the longer DoD DP's with a significant number of additional entries, (and other material), added by someone. For example, there are entries which show up in RED, rather than in BLUE. I assume that a 'real' original DP entries would show up with all Bold BLUE entries? It's neither fish nor fowl (as it stands), if I'm looking at the right DP. If you want, I can change _that_ DD Dramatis Personae so that it appears as it does in my edition of the book (see above). Let me know what approach you think would be best. Pcwrcw (talk) 00:06, October 18, 2016 (UTC) Sorry, what I meant to say was 'can you adjust' so that original DP on main page is exactly like the one you have in the book that you are using to create the extended DP. As for red links - wish we had them all in blue but especially for the later books we still have a few characters without their own pages. AV has been working hard on reducing the number of red links but with new books out all the time, the list keeps refreshing itself. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:01, October 18, 2016 (UTC) From Pcwrcw (talk) yet again: :Okay Egwene, I can (and will) 'adjust' the so-called 'original DP' of DD as it is currently shown on DoD's main page. When finished, it will look exactly as it is given in my edition of DoD (see above). No problem. Given the situation, doing so makes sense. I'll get onto that first thing...it shouldn't take that long to do. I'll add a note indicating the edition it's from. :I hate to bring this up now, but I think the DP for Crippled God is in a similar (if not worse) limbo. Not that I'm necessarily volunteering to work on the CG Ext DP. One 'can of worms' at a time, I say. Pcwrcw (talk) 20:04, October 18, 2016 (UTC) Yes, I think we can assume that it isn't just those two either. I have checked through the GotM DP, which was ok apart from a couple of mistakes and will take a look at the others when I get a chance. In the meantime - the DPs are not exactly 'wrong' - they just don't seem to have been taken from the most commonly accessed editions. The main thing is that ultimately DP and corresponding EDP are based on one and the same edition. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:23, October 18, 2016 (UTC) From Pcwrcw (talk) 22:43, October 18, 2016 (UTC) Okay, the 'main page' DD DP now looks exactly the same as the DP pages in the book edition that I'm using. NOTE THAT THIS MEANS: :(1) in "The Malazans" section, an entry for "Lieutenant Raband" WAS added between "Lieutenant Pores" and "Sinn" (all other changes between DP's were omissions); :(2) there IS a space between the entry for "Drawfirst" and "Dead Hedge" in "The Squads" section; :(3) there IS a space between "Udinass" and "Sheb", as well as between "Rautos" and "Sandalath Drukorlat" in the "Others" section; :(4) but there are NO additional spaces within "The Squads" section see (2), even though the code indicates that there should be nine more (i.e., more or less between each squad listed). Clearly, editing for length (or some other publishing constraint) trumped whatever SE may (or may not) have originally intended for the DP--assuming the Publishers even knew at that point. Do WE even know exactly how much input SE had in the DP's in the books (especially in the later books/editions)?? Sigh. Pcwrcw (talk) 22:43, October 18, 2016 (UTC) :I have no idea if the authors are involved with that aspect. I would presume so but maybe it is the editorial team who make the decisions... Thanks for updating the DP, Pcwrcw :) From Pcwrcw (talk) 23:23, November 1, 2016 (UTC) Characters who appear in the DP but who are not referred to in the book I've finished the 'rough draft' of the DD Ext DP--various 'checkings' and then footnotes to follow. :HOWEVER, I've run into a situation on which I need some guidance. I have not been able to find any individual MENTIONS of the names of five Malazan squad members in the text of my copy of Dust of Dreams. (They ARE listed in the book's DP). I think this is because DoD was treated by SE as the first half of an extended single novel. He also probably wanted to leave the outcome of the Big Battle at the end of the book (where the Malazan Army was concerned, anyway) as up in the air as possible. The five 'missing' individuals are the following: :GALT and LOBE of Balm's 9th squad; :Corporal HUNT of Primly's 10th squad; :Corporal REEM and SCANT of Urb's 13th squad We know from Chapter Four of The Crippled God that all five soldiers WERE at the Big Battle with the rest of their squad mates. What happened to them is also given (pretty explicitly) in the same place (not that that would be included in an Ext DP citation, of course). There are a number of ways of handling this. Is there a convention to be used when this type of thing occurs? I don't think handling them as 'citation-needed' entries would work, because I think the 'true' citations are to be found in tCG. Which we could use, of course. Or we could leave those entries without citations. Or... I think that this same situation may well show up when the CG Ext DP is done, so we should probably keep that in mind as well. Ideas? Pcwrcw (talk) :I had a similar issue with the Return of the Crimson Guard/Extended Dramatis Personae. Several CG characters like Farese were in the regular DP, but were not referred to in the text. I listed them as "(not referred to)" with an explanation at the top of the page. Then on the character's page I added a Trivia section describing the issue.--ArchieVist (talk) 23:41, November 1, 2016 (UTC) I noticed that as well when I was looking at who survived the battle. As you said, that is likely because the DP was serving both books. How about just adding (identified by name in DP only) to their names? Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:09, November 2, 2016 (UTC) Okay, thanks for the input. So, here's what I'll do: :(1) add "(referred to by name in Dramatis Personae only)" to each of the five entries :(2) use the citation "Dust of Dreams, Dramatis Personae" in the Notes and References section for each of the entries Let me know if you think there's a problem with handling the situation that way. Pcwrcw (talk) 19:03, November 2, 2016 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 22:20, November 2, 2016 (UTC)